Interview with Jim and Susan Shumaker

Thea Hurwitz: Thank you for joining me today, Grandpa and Nana. 

 

Jim Shumaker: very happy to be here.

 

TH: My first question is: how do textiles relate to your personal background? 

 

JS: .I suppose I was very impressed by my grandmother making quilts, and all of the work and creativity that went into that. And I think that was my first exposure to something where, just as you suggested, the craft is something created in the home. And that is where she expressed herself and did a great job. And, you know, a couple of years ago, we went to an exhibition at the Museum of Fine Arts, and one of the special shows there was about quilts. And they were spectacular. It was just wonderful. But they were all created by people who are just doing their housework, you know, their home crafting. So, I think that's sort of the beginning of my interest in craft as an expression of one’s interest in creating something or having something that could be enjoyed, or is enjoyed by me at least. 

 

And moving on from that, of course, Susan, your Nana...we've lived together for a long time, so we've engaged in a lot of activities and projects that involve textiles. For example, we made all the curtains, and drapes that went into our first permanent home. It was a hell of a lot of work, but it was nice to see what we had when we got finished with it. That was, that was a wonderful thing for us to do. Another thing that we got involved in was making Halloween costumes for our children. In creating those in many cases, we had to create the costume, design---

 

Susan Shumaker: ---and convince the children that they really didn't need to get one the Five and Ten, that they had one that was already made... we wanted to give them one that was homemade. So Grandpa did all the designing and worked on those. 

 

JS: And the hardest part of all of that was making the tail! If there needed to be a cat's tail, you know, curving up, it's hard to create that and so I did a lot of work to get that done. 

 

I think I like to work on things that when you finish, you can hold it in your hands, and you just worked on it. And, and I have no talent or anything for creating some picture, or painting, or anything like that. So I guess I was first fascinated when I was about 10 years old, and I noticed in our basement, my mother had her sewing machine. And in those days, of course, every sewing machine was controlled by pedaling, So I got into that a bit, and thought that just sewing straight lines was fine. Because it was great to put myself into that. So that's when I sort of, at that tender age, came to like sewing machines, and, and sewing. So those little things were sort of, sort of the beginning of my interest in and creating things or participating in things that, you know, had some relationship to textiles.

 

SS: I just will say at this point, Grandpa and I were talking today about what it was like when we were growing up in public high school. And when I was in junior high, they required the girls to take sewing and cooking, and the boys had to take woodworking. I didn't have a sewing machine at home, but we did it at school. And the first thing we made was a bag to put all our sewing in, which was cotton, and then the tie on it was like rope, it was very strong. And we could take our sewing projects back and forth with that. The second thing we made was an apron. We had to do an apron, so the next term, when we took cooking, we would have an apron. And so those were required, and when we got to high school, they were elective, so you could take one of the other classes if it fit into your schedule. But grandpa had woodworking, I believe it was available. I didn't take it in my high school, but that was

very important at that time, the chance to be able to do some fundamental sewing and cooking. 

 

JS: So I think I should mention that when I was between 10 and 15 years old, I became interested in a lot of things that would be creative or active or fun. But here's the way I approached them: for example. I thought I wanted to do some fly fishing. So, how did I start? Now, I'm 12 years old in West Virginia. So how do you get into fly fishing? So I thought that the way to get into this was that every fly fisherman has a hat. And you know what he has stuck on the head, is the flies, which he created he goes and buys. So I got that, and then I started accumulating some flies...and that’s as far as I got with fly fishing. I was thinking of another time when I decided I would like to do oil painting. I was like 12, 13 years old at the time. 

 

TH: That's sophisticated.

 

JS: So how did I get into that?I thought, well, the first thing I need to do is, not to take any lessons, but the first thing is to have a wooden box where you could keep your paints. And so I spend a lot of time putting some sort of stain on it and around it. And when I got done with that, I had a beautiful box. By the time I finished with the box I thought, I don’t really want to go on with this and mess up this box. So those are a couple examples of how I proceeded. Another point I want to mention is when I wanted to learn how to play the violin. So I got my mother to order a violin for me from Sears, which cost like $12 or something. And so then I started to practice without any lessons or anything. And I think what killed me was when my sister and her husband came to visit us at one point. And I don't know how it got out thatI was interested in playing the violin, and my sister and her husband insisted that I bring the violin out and show them how. Of course I did, and it was awful, of course. And they did not cheer, or call it wonderful, or say ‘keep it up. Jim, you're doing great.’ No, they just laughed and laughed and held their nose and all that. So I didn't get any extra encouragement. 

 

SS: And that's what The Artist’s Way is about. It's about us as children forming interests in something we want to try and then having someone, usually a teacher but doesn't have to be, say ‘That's, that's not good, you're not doing a good job or you've got to try something else.’ And I think that's what happens. But Grandpa was so driven by his own interest and understanding of what he wanted to do and accomplish that he went on. He went on and later on played the classical guitar in college so well that his teachers said, ‘you should take a year and go to Paris, and study there at the Sorbonne.’ And when we got married, we went to Paris, and he played the classical guitar. So I think, had he never picked up an instrument again, because he was sort of booed or made fun of, that would have been so tragic. And I think that's what happens to a lot of young people. 

 

But I want to say one thing that I think it's important in relation to talking about culture and background. Grandpa’s grandmother was a quilter. She did it all by hand, by the way, she never had a sewing machine. All that work, if you haven't already seen, your mom has one of the quilts, is all done by hand. My great grandmother, she would crochet, and she would stitch for hours and hours. And at the time linens, like tablecloths, napkins, pillowcases, they were cotton. And so when someone was getting married, normally what would happen is someone in the family would crochet a pillowcase or a set of napkins or a tablecloth, and my great grandmother would sit for hours and hours to do this beautiful crochet, all the linens..You'll go to an antique shop now and you'll see these linens that are just beautiful. And my aunt, as well as my mother, would make handkerchiefs, women's handkerchiefs, and they were beautiful. You'd start with a piece of fabric, and you would embroider and crochet around the beautiful colors and patterns. Well, I started knitting when I was about 13. And again, based on the fact that they did a lot of crafts, they taught me how to knit. So I did some knitting, and then later on, when your mom was born, and David was born, I was able to knit them blankets and you know, things with my knitting. And then the one other thing that I did when I was 8 or 9 years old was to learn to make popovers. And they still have the frame and the loops. In fact I got you the one when you were quite young. Iand would do little pretty color loops. And I would say to my neighbor, ‘what color is your kitchen?’ And then I would sit down and make a potholder all white and yellow. And that was something that really was fun, but also made me feel good because, again, it was something one could do and feel really good about. And so there are all kinds of possibilities along the way. And Grandpa, and when we first got married, said he wanted to make a suit for himself, and he wanted to design it. And he started, he bought the patterns, he bought the material, and he really started working on that, and almost had the jacket of this suit done, and then he went to law school, your mom was born, and we were moving... but he even then really was interested in sewing, creating, and doing things that most men weren't interested in. 

 

JS: I don't know of any other man I've ever met who’s interested in sewing

 

SS: Yes you have, Joe Magier! He had his sewing, his factory, he made handbags. That was his business but he really loved sewing. 

 

JS: So if you want to ask another question, to direct us? 

 

TH:  this has been, this has been pretty common for actually all of my interviews. I mean, for being chatty myself, I found I'm pretty good at getting people to kind of go on and continue, which I really like. I love hearing all the stories, hearing both of your stories. Grandpa, I'm particularly interested in regards to all your different creative pursuits. It's such an interesting concept that you tried a lot of different things, and maybe they didn't always stick or maybe you didn't feel like you should continue or had the motivation to continue. But it seems like you had this really enduring creative drive that often in your life came out in the form of making textiles. Do you feel like when you were making textiles, even if they were something for your kid or mending a suit, do you feel like you're being creative when you do that? Or is it coming from somewhere else?

 

JS: Well, let me just say, I don't think I'm terribly creative. I don't think I'm terrible, but I'm not terribly creative. But I, as I said, I really like to create something that's sort of tangible and has some use, or at least, it's, if it's not pretty or something at least it's utile. And so I would say that in the last several years, I've hit the jackpot with making Linus Blankets, because there the process is to find material and make combinations with that material that will create a blanket that is likely to be well received by a poor child. It will make him or her happier or if nothing else makes them warmer. And it's a nice piece of work and I tried to do it as well as I can and try to make it a good thing, not just ripping off something. And and at the same time, I can't imagine anything more useful than expending one's creativity in a direction that is designed to help children, deprived children, children who need help. So we've got over here, to begin with, we've got over here,eight or nine blankets that we've created, and I just like to look at them and think ‘we did that’. Now, not that not that difficult, but they really look nice, and we did. And then on Friday, I'm going to take 20 blankets to deliver to the Department of Children and Families. And they will take these blankets that we've created and give them out one by one to children who have been unfortunately taken away from their parents, and they had to go to foster homes. And I feel as though we are giving some measure of comfort to them. And so I feel like, as I said, I really hit the jackpot with this one. We've been doing it for 10 years or and I intend to continue doing this as long as I can. So this is one. This isn't like my one to go fly fishing. This is perfect for me. 

 

TH: So you're saying even though maybe you don't feel like you're creative in the sense that you're coming up with a new idea, you do feel creatively fulfilled in that you're fulfilling your drive to create and create for others. As you said, you’re creating something not only that you can hold but more importantly, that somebody else can respond to. 

 

JS: And can appreciate it altogether. By the way, Aunt Barbara, my sister, is creative. 

She is creative in the sense that she is a water colorist in her very senior years, she has been creating watercolors and some are beautiful and extraordinary.. In that, in that sense she is creative. I couldn’t draw a pretty picture. But I can maybe buy the parts for a kid's blanket and say, This is really going to be a pretty blanket when it’s done, or at least I think it’s a pretty blanket. 

 

SS: And Grandpa when Mason and Jonah (my cousins) were in the cub scouts, grandpa was able to make, from scratch, cars for them to use for their Cub Scouts racing competition. Why? And Grandp would get the piece of wood and make the car. 

 

JS: Well, initially, the idea for the car and the design would rest with the scout, Mason or Jonah.. And so they picked out this sort of design that we would use. And then they would participate as much as possible in you know, the creation and changing and coloring and, and all that, which wasn't very much and so in practical terms it was like the kids would figure out what kind of car they wanted to end up with, and then the child's father or grandfather or uncle or somebody else would create the car and actually put it together. And that's that fell to me, and I loved it. I loved doing it because I thought when they presented their car, it would be something that they would like, they would think it's a nice thing. 

 

SS: And they, you know, they did it with their grandpa. And I think you know, regardless, that that was something that you did, also, which was creative.

 

JS: it was creating something, as I said before, that I could hold in my hands after I finish with it.

But I didn't create an idea. 

 

SS: And I just want to say as far as your sister, who told me that she doesn't just think of ideas, she will look through magazines and books and pictures, and she will see  a cow, for instance. And she will decide she's going to paint a cow. 

 

JS: And her biggest customers for her work. are her daughters and son and grandchildren. They will give her a commission. They ask for a picture of horses or something, and so Barbara will go and then give it to them as a Christmas gift? 

 

SS: Well Thea, I don't know if you remember, the painting over our fireplace and how that looks like the carousel with all the different colors. And that was the new method she decided to try. And I still think it's great. We've had it probably 20 years. 

 

TH: I'm very interested in the concept of what makes art creative. What makes some art consider creative. What makes some art considered not creative. I mean, and I think you added a really good point, the idea that even somebody who's painting or drawing or sculpting and media is that are often way more widely accepted by the fine arts world, you're very rarely completely creating in a vacuum. Which is why I think sometimes it's a little unfair to say that one person was being more creative because they thought up a new idea, rather than maybe working from a sewing pattern like you might do, Grandpa. Because what is the new idea? Is there ever a new idea? So sometimes I think it's maybe a little bit unfair to say that certain arts are less creative. And this is my personal value that I want to impart to you, Grandpa; I think that if you are creating something with your hands, and you stay with it from start to finish, and you have an idea of what you want it to look like and you choose the colors and you choose the materials, you are using your creative voice, even if all your creative voice is saying is that this is a blanket that's going to keep somebody warm. That is your creative voice and I think it's very valuable. That it's okay you don't have to say ‘oh, I'm an artist and these are all my thoughts on being an artist.’ You know, you don't have to have your beret and your palette at your sewing machine. But that's where I'm coming from. So I really appreciate your point of view, and I'm not pushing back on it, but what I want to say is that I feel strongly that creativity is for everybody.

 

SS: I'll just say one more thing. Grandpa kept saying about the blankets that ‘we’ make them. I don’t sew an inch,, but I have the best time picking up the materials. So my creative part of the whole process. Grandpa is the one that does all the sewing, and all the thinking and all the putting together. And I think that makes us a good team. 

 

TH:. I agree. I have another question. This is a big one. You can take some time to think. So how do you feel like textiles ended up relating to your role in your family? Even like, maybe while you were working full time? How did that play a role? I know you mentioned making costumes and stuff, but I'd love to hear more about you being a dad and being a husband, and then also being kind of the provider for your family. And then also, you know, being interested in sewing and helping out in your household with sewing, I'd love to hear any of your thoughts on that. 

 

JS: I think the onl my interest in textiles was just because I, in addition to being a lawyer and going to work every day, and being a father, and, you know, doing whatever around the house and so forth...I did like the idea of working on things like our drapes, and I had some some affinity for sewing, just because I liked it. Whenever we sat down and said, we need to go buy some drapes, I would be happy to jump in instead and say, I'd like to make them.  It's something I can do: instead of going to play golf on Saturday afternoon, I'd like to sit here for a few hours and sew. I think it's just something that I was happy to participate in, and it involved textiles.

 

TH: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

 

SS: Also, Grandpa, and I both, we didn't have any money to spare. We couldn’t go out and hire someone to do that, we couldn't go out and buy off the rack, so to speak. And what we could buy off the rack was really mostly poor quality. And Grandpa absolutely made things perfect quality when we bought material. We went to all these sewing stores and so on, but it was really part of the idea, that he knew he could do a better job. 

 

JS: I mean, I’m not bragging about myself, but my interest in anything I do is to do it just the best I can. So that's just that's the way I'm structured. 

 

TH: I like that a lot. I guess I have a couple more questions relating to your blanket-making now but before I asked that, I wanted to ask, because I don't think I actually know this: who specifically taught you how to sew, Grandpa? 

 

JS: I taught myself. I started off with my mother's sewing machine, and eventually, we bought a portable sewing machine. But I must say, I have never used more than one or two of the sewing stitches. I just sew straight lines. I don’t do buttonholes. 

 

TH: Well you can get pretty far with that. 

 

SS: He’s great at reading and interpreting instruction. And so he can take things from step one to step two, and go right down the line. He's got a wonderful mind to follow directions. And I don't, so that's a gift, entirely.

 

TH: And I would say it’s  a creative skill, even if going by the book sometimes is seen as, as less creative. It is, it's all part of creating successfully. I wanted to know, what are some of your preferred tools and materials you like to work with? 

 

JS: Well at this point, we make our blankets out of the best fleece that Joanne makes. We don't buy the second rate, third rate. We buy the best that they have. And that's that's what I'm doing now. And we occasionally get an order for a baby blanket or something like that, so we make it out of flannel, but that's all. 

 

TH: What about your sewing machine? Do you have any preferences? Or do you just kind of just buy whatever seemed like the good one to buy?

 

JS: The history on sewing machines started when we started doing all these blankets. And

our whole our, our own one and only portable sewing machine. We had had it for 30 years or something.

And it conked out. And then we went to Joanne's and bought a new sewing machine and worked on that. Fleece is very tough on sewing machines. And especially when you're going through maybe sometimes four layers. And so, that sewing machine that we got which is the Singer Sewing machine, it lasted about two years. And then I took it to the expert Sewing organization. They sell material, they sell sewing machines, and they will repair your sewing machine if you need. And this was about three years ago. And so I took the machine there because it just flopped and was not working. And the woman who I was speaking with basically asked ‘you're sewing with fleece all the tim,?’ and I said ‘most of the time.’ And she said well, ‘we can probably have your machine fixed so that it can do some work again. But I got to tell you this, this machine is not competent to do a lot of sewing of fleece.’ So I said, okay, I guess I need a heavy duty machine. She said Yes, sir. She said we have three levels of sewing machines. And there's the simple one, the medium one, and the real machine. So I got the real machine, one that can do the work. The lady also advised me that if we're going to do fleece all the time, which she recognized and brought to my attention, she said when you're doing fleece, the drag or the, the system that pulls the, the material after it's been stitched in a positive position. This stuff is so thick that the pulley only goes on the bottom of the stitch above the knee, or whatever. And the result with these very thick combinations of material is that the top side is constantly getting behind and pulling out top doesn't go as far. And so the result is that you end up with the stitching having little bumps along the way, all the time. So she also sold me a device that creates a drag on top as well. So that has facilitated miles of sewing that I had with that. And so, so your question, I think we started with what I saw the machine but we've been using this one not the last three years. And I am

it has continued to work just beautifully. 

 

SS: But anyways, Grandpa keeps track of how many blankets he makes, because the Linus project people want a number to know where their work goes. 

 

JS: And last year, the year before we did about exactly 200 blankets. And a very large percentage of those went to your mom's school, the school where she was on the board. So we send a lot of those to that group. So we do between 150 and 200 a year. 

 

SS: We pay for all the material. You know, that's really our contribution as well as the work. But we just decided that was something that we wanted to devote some of our money to. It costs about $20 a blanket, though it's expensive, but it's very good quality, and they can be washed. It was very important that they be able to be washed. But Grandpa is extremely creative, and he's generous, and you give him something that you want done and he will figure it out, and I think that's remarkable because that is something that so many people would love to do, all these different things, but then they look at and say, ‘That's too much, I can't do it, I can't figure it out.’ He will figure it out. So he's got a gift. 

 

JS: I don’t know if it’s a gift or not. But my sister always says that you can cook anything you want, and it can be created to be beautiful, and wonderful and tasty. All you need is a cookbook.

 

SS: Well, it's like having a garden. I never had a garden, but then we got to a place where we had a little patch of land. And grandpa had had a garden growing up, that was another creative tool. And he helped me have a garden. And then once I got gardening, and planted vegetables I wanted to can them. Well, I’d never canned anything before. But I was able to learn how to do that. And so the cucumbers became pickles, somehow or other, and that whole sequence came about. And that was another creative project that I think, you know, was really a good one. Did you know that he had a farm stand? When he was 10 or 11 and sold all his vegetables that he grew. So I think that's creative. 

 

TH: I absolutely agree. I wanted to know more about your relationship with Joe and what it was like to kind of connect with somebody kind of on sewing, you were saying that Joe was one of the only other men you had met that was so interested in sewing, and I want to know, kind of what your what your dialogue, I guess was like when it came to talking to each other about this thing that you both loved?

 

JS: Well, I was exceedingly impressed when, as we got to know them I found out Joe's history in Seventh Avenue in New York, and the creation of clothing, particularly women's clothing. And he worked there for years and years. And that's where he learned how to make clothes. And then when we got to know him, I thought it was great that he still did those things. By the way, in between that New York period and, and the time that he finally retired, hhe and one of his brothers owned and operated a small business that created copies of designer handbags and bags and then sold them to buyers, not trying to pass them off. So that was his business for several years, and it was successful. I was very impressed to learn about it. Then he was completely retired, and he continued to do sewing that fit into the family's needs. And, of course, he was capable of sewing anything. But in later years, he was creating for various members and descendants, the kind of robe or something that you had, the prayer shawl. He made them for all his family, extended family, like yourself. And he loved doing that, and he did a beautiful job. So time passed, he was doing bad and we live next door, it's already on. And so then we got involved in making these blankets. And Joe was getting older and didn't have that much work to do, or that he wanted to do, I guess. But he really thought what we were doing was a good thing. And so I sought to involve him in the finishing of these, this kind of light. And so one summer, maybe two summers, I would take each of these blankets to a certain point, and then I would send 10 of them over to Joe's house. And Joe would pick them up and he would finish them, you know, whatever additional sewing needed to be done. And so we participated to that extent. And so when we gave the blankets away, we always made sure that we gave credit to Joe as well as me. Of course, the people from Project Linus would write back and say how wonderful it is that Joe is doing this, and that the work is beautiful and everything like that. 

 

But I just wanted to say that I think I got one of the most wonderful compliments one time... Joe liked to go to breakfast at a restaurant in Hingham. And he had for years, gone to breakfast once a week or once every other week, with a couple of his old cronies. And they would meet and talk and eat an egg, and so Joe took me along a few times. And so by way of introducing me at the beginning to the other two cronies, Joe was describing me...Joe was very impressed by people who were lawyers or doctors or engineers or something like that. Joe had not gone to college, had no things like that. But he was very impressed by people. So, the guys that he was addressing me to are under that category. And so in a way he wanted to tell him that I was a lawyer, I had been a lawyer, so he was going on about that. And when I retired, he said to his friends, ‘now that Jim is retired, he spends his time making beautiful blankets.’ And I thought, God, that is just wonderful to hear. So anyhow, that was my relationship with Joe.

 

SS: Joe, as Grandpa said, towards the end of his life, he really was depressed, having had a lot of difficulty throughout his life after being in a camp, in Auschwitz as a 12 year old. Anyways, he struggled and struggled. And his family was so wonderful, because they always were trying to help him find things that he could do and feel good about. And Joe loved our family, and really loved Grandpa. And it just was wonderful. And Joe, after he got out of the camps in Auschwitz, he stayed in Europe, and he learned… now talk about being creative-- He learned how to make teeth!. He worked in the dental factory, and learned how to make teeth. So, talk about creative...No, he didn't have a college education or whatever, but he was very talented and able to learn that process, and then of course, like grandpa said, he came to New York. But he really was a wonderful person, and it was wonderful for grandpa to have that male companionship.

 

JS: The only other person I ever knew who sewed.. 

 

SS: And he enjoyed it, and he could really look and say, ‘This is a fine piece of work.’ And he would examine the stitches, and so on. 

 

TH: Is there anything else you'd like to add? Do you have any other thoughts on anything that we've talked about?

 

JS: No. I think I've told you all the embarrassing things I could talk about.

 

SS: I think you probably have learned something after many years about your grandfather that you didn't know. But it's wonderful that you've had the opportunity to take the time to learn some of the things that you know about him.